Following the screening of “The Pigeons of Lahore” in Pennsylvania in collaboration with Penn State University and WACH, Thomas Sideris speaks with Cemre Ulker about human rights and global solidarity.

The interview of the Greek journalist and documentary creator Thomas Sideris with Cemre Ulker, on the occasion of Human Rights Day at Central Penn College in Pennsylvania, USA, highlights the importance of journalism and culture as tools for defending human rights.

Thomas Sideris, known for his work on issues of social justice and historical memory, often focuses on the untold stories of people experiencing social exclusion and human rights violations. Through this interview, he addresses issues such as:

• The power of storytelling and documentary filmmaking in raising awareness about human rights.
• The responsibility of journalism in uncovering the truth and defending the vulnerable.
• The importance of dialogue and cultural exchange in a globalized world.

Central Penn College, as a hub for education and the promotion of social awareness, 
hosts such events that aim to foster critical thinking and international solidarity.

Cemre Ulker: Thomas, you have a devoted journalism and film production career that is globally recognized, and you have a passion for raising awareness of the grave human rights violations and the plight that refugees are encountering. You have documented the case of Armenians forced to leave their homelands and worked on displaced Kurds; your work even extended to Latin America as you highlighted Haitian refugees in your film Marabou. Can you please start by sharing your reflections on the importance of highlighting the stories and resilience of refugees? How does personalizing this human rights agenda help mitigate this global crisis?

Thomas Sideris: I thank all the foundations for their help and support in my cinematic work. I especially thank my tireless and resilient colleague Joyce. It is a great honor for me to say that I am colleagues with Joyce. I also want to thank my brotherly friend Sait Onal.

I will try to keep my answer brief and to the point. After all, it is three in the morning here, and I must wake up shortly to go to work.

However, a film can raise awareness among citizens, make them think differently, and speak about invisible people and things that seem insignificant but, in reality, are vital. Take, for example, Pakistani migrants, many of whom clean car windows at road intersections when cars stop at traffic lights, hoping drivers will give them a few cents. That is their work; that is their livelihood. I don’t remember if this happens in the USA. However, most drivers look away, not wanting to see the poverty beside them.

We avoid talking about death because we fear it. We avoid talking about poverty and migration because we fear these realities, but poverty and migration are here. And these two—poverty and migration—go hand in hand.

With my films, I aim to make these people visible and address xenophobia, Islamophobia, and the complex issue of migration. Unfortunately, this effort does not always succeed. The reception of the film in Greece was disappointing. I think not many people in Greece care about the issues of migrants, particularly Pakistanis. Many told me, ‘You shouldn’t have made this film. Pakistanis are a problem.’

But in the faces of the film’s protagonists, I didn’t see Pakistanis. I saw people who are victims of human trafficking. I saw people working hard and falling victim to economic exploitation. In the faces of these men, I saw my father.

My father was white and didn’t have dark skin; my father was Christian, not Muslim; my father wasn’t a migrant, and his work was very close to the house where we lived. But both my father and these Pakistani workers are victims of the same brutality, the same social conditions, and the same exploitation.

This film does two things: it attempts to bring to light people who are invisible and, at the same time, are victims of economic exploitation—perhaps this is why they must remain invisible forever. And it also brings to light the tragedy of a shipwreck involving migrant victims, which occurred in Greek waters and is closely linked to the film’s protagonists.

Regarding this shipwreck, in Greece, the law of silence prevails, just as it does regarding the pushbacks of migrants in the Aegean. When you talk about these issues in Greece, you are more or less considered an enemy of your homeland. I have faced several unpleasant situations when bringing up topics in public discourse that the government or decision-making centers do not want to be heard.

But I persist because I feel it is what I must do. I am aware of my mission and have an unshakable determination to continue.

Cemre Ulker: You elaborate on xenophobia and cultural integration in your film Gas Station. Reflecting on the other documentaries that you worked on, please tell us what similarities you observe between the journey of Muhammad and other displaced individuals that you documented before.

Thomas Sideris: Almost all my cinematic protagonists share common characteristics and similar journeys in their lives. Migration—whether due to war, economic hardship, or climate change—has the same social and psychological impact. A common feature of migrants is that while they traverse geographical space, they carry within them their social space or fragments of it. At each stop, in every enclave where they reside, they create various spatial representations that reference the place they left behind and reflect their expectations and dreams.

No one leaves their home, and no one risks their life without a cause. Thus, an economic or climate migrant from Haiti crossing the Caribbean, a Turkish political migrant crossing a river to reach Greece, a Pakistani or Afghan migrant boarding a small boat to cross from Turkey to Greece, or a Syrian migrant leaving their village in fear of being slaughtered by jihadists—all have reasons for doing so, and all face similar hardships.

Unfortunately, despite the rapid technological advancement in the world we live in, the prevailing doctrine remains one of deep social inequality and the exclusion of an increasing number of people from wealth. The deeper social inequality grows, the deeper human suffering will become.

Political and social elites do not care about invisible people. It is a boxing match of political power. But behind every form of power lies economic exploitation. What might slow this situation down, however, is climate change, which primarily affects the poor but spares no one, whether they belong to the 1% or the 99%.

Cemre Ulker: There has been a grave crackdown on social and political rights in the last decade, which has escalated as Turkey alarmingly disregards the pillars of democracy with immense pressure from authorities controlling public institutions. This shrinking civic space has forced tens of thousands to leave their homeland, and Greece has been a safe zone for countless families, particularly those affiliated with the Hizmet movement, despite systemic pushbacks. I would appreciate receiving your insights on the integration progress of Turkish refugees in Greece.

Greece was a nearby destination, but migrating there was not always easy. Turkish citizens left as illegal migrants, and there are many cases where people died along the way or entire families were lost in the waters of a river. These situations were deeply tragic. However, in recent years, thriving Turkish communities have emerged in Athens and Thessaloniki.

Turkish migrants, like any migrants, first have to overcome the shock. Suddenly, they find themselves in a position where they have left everything behind, facing unknown people in an unfamiliar geographical and social space. They leave behind their home, their habits, their friends, and their family members. Often with no money at all, they must survive, find a meal, and find a place to stay. For most migrants, none of this is guaranteed.

Many Turkish citizens may have had some money with them, perhaps putting them in a better situation than an Afghan migrant, but many Turks also arrived with no money at all. I think that, in the case of Turkish migrants, the pre-existing solidarity networks worked very well, which greatly helped with their initial settlement.

Certainly, the social integration of migrants does not happen overnight. It takes time—perhaps eight to ten years—before we can say that these people have fully integrated into the social environment. Many Turkish migrants started their own businesses or engaged in trade and services like real estate. However, the violent separation from one’s home and homeland will always remain an open wound.